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	<title>Comments on: Should swine flu close churches?</title>
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		<title>By: agyapw</title>
		<link>http://agyapw.wordpress.com/2009/06/27/should-swine-flu-close-churches/#comment-86</link>
		<dc:creator>agyapw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agyapw.wordpress.com/?p=141#comment-86</guid>
		<description>Thanks Kathryn.

Yes, I realise that I could have explained a bit further the arguments &lt;em&gt;for&lt;/em&gt; suspending services - and given due weight to the argument that it is an act of love for others to suspend the services during an epidemic. A church service is an opportunity for a virus to spread efficiently, just as any public gathering is. However, a church service is different to other public gatherings in terms of its function of being somewhere the word of God is proclaimed, the Lord&#039;s Supper/Eucharist celebrated, and the unity of Christians in the body of Christ visibly demonstrated. I would argue that these functions are so important that they ought not to be cancelled even in the face of an epidemic. The reason for this is that a person&#039;s spiritual health is more important than their physical health - I realise the phrasing is clumsy and I don&#039;t mean to say the body is irrelevant, but rather that our status before God is more important than whether our bodies are healthy. Christians need to hear the word of God to be reminded of the gospel (so it can work upon our tough, idolatrous hearts!) and non-Christians need to hear it even more, so that they can hear how to be made right with God in Christ. The church service is one of the best places for this to happen. Furthermore, the celebration of the Lord&#039;s Supper can only happen in a physical gathering of Christians; not via a podcast, so there are important reasons for the service to be a physical assembling of people.
I am not sure what to do in terms of individual members of the congregation who have swine flu - it seems to me that they might choose to stay away themselves to avoid passing the disease to others. What I would be wary of is any suggestion to non-Christians that if they have, or have had, or may have swine flu, they are not welcome at the service - why should they be turned away from church and from hearing the gospel just because we Christians are anxious to preserve our own health?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Kathryn.</p>
<p>Yes, I realise that I could have explained a bit further the arguments <em>for</em> suspending services &#8211; and given due weight to the argument that it is an act of love for others to suspend the services during an epidemic. A church service is an opportunity for a virus to spread efficiently, just as any public gathering is. However, a church service is different to other public gatherings in terms of its function of being somewhere the word of God is proclaimed, the Lord&#8217;s Supper/Eucharist celebrated, and the unity of Christians in the body of Christ visibly demonstrated. I would argue that these functions are so important that they ought not to be cancelled even in the face of an epidemic. The reason for this is that a person&#8217;s spiritual health is more important than their physical health &#8211; I realise the phrasing is clumsy and I don&#8217;t mean to say the body is irrelevant, but rather that our status before God is more important than whether our bodies are healthy. Christians need to hear the word of God to be reminded of the gospel (so it can work upon our tough, idolatrous hearts!) and non-Christians need to hear it even more, so that they can hear how to be made right with God in Christ. The church service is one of the best places for this to happen. Furthermore, the celebration of the Lord&#8217;s Supper can only happen in a physical gathering of Christians; not via a podcast, so there are important reasons for the service to be a physical assembling of people.<br />
I am not sure what to do in terms of individual members of the congregation who have swine flu &#8211; it seems to me that they might choose to stay away themselves to avoid passing the disease to others. What I would be wary of is any suggestion to non-Christians that if they have, or have had, or may have swine flu, they are not welcome at the service &#8211; why should they be turned away from church and from hearing the gospel just because we Christians are anxious to preserve our own health?</p>
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		<title>By: Kathryn</title>
		<link>http://agyapw.wordpress.com/2009/06/27/should-swine-flu-close-churches/#comment-85</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathryn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agyapw.wordpress.com/?p=141#comment-85</guid>
		<description>Hmm, I&#039;d agree with Phil there. Especially as if the statement that &#039;true believers don&#039;t get sick&#039; is true, it follows that &#039;true believers cannot die&#039;, or something similar (at least not die of illness, as they won&#039;t get an illness to die from?).

And I would also say that it is logical to close the church (although I don&#039;t entirely agree with it) - not due to a lack of faith, but for the health of others. I know that the church in question has non-believers come to its services (so then they could become infected); also, 1000 people together in a room is a big opportunity for the disease to spread! And then those 1000 people go to work the next day, and spread the virus to their colleagues... do you see how this progresses? That&#039;s the practical view, anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, I&#8217;d agree with Phil there. Especially as if the statement that &#8216;true believers don&#8217;t get sick&#8217; is true, it follows that &#8216;true believers cannot die&#8217;, or something similar (at least not die of illness, as they won&#8217;t get an illness to die from?).</p>
<p>And I would also say that it is logical to close the church (although I don&#8217;t entirely agree with it) &#8211; not due to a lack of faith, but for the health of others. I know that the church in question has non-believers come to its services (so then they could become infected); also, 1000 people together in a room is a big opportunity for the disease to spread! And then those 1000 people go to work the next day, and spread the virus to their colleagues&#8230; do you see how this progresses? That&#8217;s the practical view, anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Should swine flu close churches? &#171; Nottingham Is Crap</title>
		<link>http://agyapw.wordpress.com/2009/06/27/should-swine-flu-close-churches/#comment-83</link>
		<dc:creator>Should swine flu close churches? &#171; Nottingham Is Crap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agyapw.wordpress.com/?p=141#comment-83</guid>
		<description>[...] http://agyapw.wordpress.com/2009/06/27/should-swine-flu-close-churches/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://agyapw.wordpress.com/2009/06/27/should-swine-flu-close-churches/" rel="nofollow">http://agyapw.wordpress.com/2009/06/27/should-swine-flu-close-churches/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jeremiah17</title>
		<link>http://agyapw.wordpress.com/2009/06/27/should-swine-flu-close-churches/#comment-82</link>
		<dc:creator>jeremiah17</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agyapw.wordpress.com/?p=141#comment-82</guid>
		<description>Suffering temptations, not the physical</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suffering temptations, not the physical</p>
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		<title>By: agyapw</title>
		<link>http://agyapw.wordpress.com/2009/06/27/should-swine-flu-close-churches/#comment-81</link>
		<dc:creator>agyapw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:20:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agyapw.wordpress.com/?p=141#comment-81</guid>
		<description>This would be the same Paul with the thorn in the flesh and the many afflictions, right?

The gospel does mean we are completely saved and will not have any disease or suffering in eternity; however, God does not promise that we never suffer or get ill or die in this present age. If anything, the gospel tells us that we must expect suffering; that indeed the saints are destined for it (1Thess 3:3); that we must suffer for Christ&#039;s name (Acts 9:16) and that we enter into the kingdom of God through suffering (Mark 8:34ff.; Acts 14:22). This is not punishment, but it is necessary for our glorification, and God&#039;s glorification (Romans 8:18ff.) and that we might learn to rely on God (2Corinthinans 1:9).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This would be the same Paul with the thorn in the flesh and the many afflictions, right?</p>
<p>The gospel does mean we are completely saved and will not have any disease or suffering in eternity; however, God does not promise that we never suffer or get ill or die in this present age. If anything, the gospel tells us that we must expect suffering; that indeed the saints are destined for it (1Thess 3:3); that we must suffer for Christ&#8217;s name (Acts 9:16) and that we enter into the kingdom of God through suffering (Mark 8:34ff.; Acts 14:22). This is not punishment, but it is necessary for our glorification, and God&#8217;s glorification (Romans 8:18ff.) and that we might learn to rely on God (2Corinthinans 1:9).</p>
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		<title>By: jeremiah17</title>
		<link>http://agyapw.wordpress.com/2009/06/27/should-swine-flu-close-churches/#comment-80</link>
		<dc:creator>jeremiah17</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agyapw.wordpress.com/?p=141#comment-80</guid>
		<description>The gospel means your saved everyday, and true believers dont get sick, look at paul and the snake he shook off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The gospel means your saved everyday, and true believers dont get sick, look at paul and the snake he shook off.</p>
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		<title>By: agyapw</title>
		<link>http://agyapw.wordpress.com/2009/06/27/should-swine-flu-close-churches/#comment-79</link>
		<dc:creator>agyapw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agyapw.wordpress.com/?p=141#comment-79</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think the question anyone should be asking is whether God will protect them from getting swine flu or not. The gospel we are called to believe doesn&#039;t promise that we will never get sick in this world; and in fact many of the early Christians who Dionysius wrote about did get sick and even died. Their faith was not that God would prevent them from getting the plague, but that whatever happened, God was worthy of being brought glory by them ministering to their city in Christ, serving their community and preaching the gospel. Those guys knew what Mark 8:34ff. was all about. That takes real faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think the question anyone should be asking is whether God will protect them from getting swine flu or not. The gospel we are called to believe doesn&#8217;t promise that we will never get sick in this world; and in fact many of the early Christians who Dionysius wrote about did get sick and even died. Their faith was not that God would prevent them from getting the plague, but that whatever happened, God was worthy of being brought glory by them ministering to their city in Christ, serving their community and preaching the gospel. Those guys knew what Mark 8:34ff. was all about. That takes real faith.</p>
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		<title>By: jeff</title>
		<link>http://agyapw.wordpress.com/2009/06/27/should-swine-flu-close-churches/#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 22:41:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agyapw.wordpress.com/?p=141#comment-76</guid>
		<description>Should I ask it like this so I think the better of them? Is it faith that led them to close the church so no swine flu would infect them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Should I ask it like this so I think the better of them? Is it faith that led them to close the church so no swine flu would infect them?</p>
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		<title>By: jeff</title>
		<link>http://agyapw.wordpress.com/2009/06/27/should-swine-flu-close-churches/#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 22:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agyapw.wordpress.com/?p=141#comment-75</guid>
		<description>be careful?  ok</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>be careful?  ok</p>
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		<title>By: agyapw</title>
		<link>http://agyapw.wordpress.com/2009/06/27/should-swine-flu-close-churches/#comment-74</link>
		<dc:creator>agyapw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agyapw.wordpress.com/?p=141#comment-74</guid>
		<description>Thanks Phil; this is really valuable. I have called it a comparatively mild virus, which I think is accurate. Even if it were more virulent, I hope my reasoning would hold. I do appreciate the arguments for respecting the expertise of the NHS, but the most recent advice is only that individuals with a confirmed or suspected case of swine flu need avoid their normal activities. http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAweb&amp;Page&amp;HPAwebAutoListName/Page/1244763940922

Your point about the precedent is bang on the money... what can they do if others catch it? If a significant portion of the city or their congregation are affected?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Phil; this is really valuable. I have called it a comparatively mild virus, which I think is accurate. Even if it were more virulent, I hope my reasoning would hold. I do appreciate the arguments for respecting the expertise of the NHS, but the most recent advice is only that individuals with a confirmed or suspected case of swine flu need avoid their normal activities. <a href="http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAweb&amp;Page&amp;HPAwebAutoListName/Page/1244763940922" rel="nofollow">http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAweb&amp;Page&amp;HPAwebAutoListName/Page/1244763940922</a></p>
<p>Your point about the precedent is bang on the money&#8230; what can they do if others catch it? If a significant portion of the city or their congregation are affected?</p>
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